Is the debate really about Civil Rights?

I received a comment on my last post saying that this whole marriage debate is not about approval, but about civil rights. I posted the following reply:

My view is that marriage is not a civil right, it is a definition. and the current, most accepted definition is the union between a man and a woman. This debate is about changing that definition, and along with changing it, validating that all unions are the same, when in fact, they’re not.

Like the author in my previous post states, “To apply a mountain of laws based specifically on experience with relations between a man and a woman to a different relationship where sex differences are not involved would be like applying the rules of baseball to football.”

Should we really do that? What is wrong with calling a same-sex union something other than marriage?

In California civil unions and marriage are equal under the law. That fact invalidates any claim that this whole debate is over “civil rights”. Obviously, the gay rights movement is after something beyond civil rights that the title of a civil union cannot give them, and that is “moral equity”.

From Troy Rockwood, a commenter on http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2008/11/14/an-analogy/:

“There are two kinds of equal… First is equal under the law. That means that you have the same rights and responsibilities from the law’s point of view. In California, civil unions and marriage are equal under the law. They have different names but the same rights are given to both groups. You can read the California code to be convinced of this (although I don’t think it’s really a contested point.)

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fam&group=00001-01000&file=297-297.5


The second type of equal is the idea that both things are of equal value. Here is where there is disagreement and why many are against having it taught in schools, for instance. This is NOT based on beliefs or faith, it’s based on facts. This isn’t saying that same sex couples are not better because homosexuality is a sin, it’s saying that same sex couples are not better because they result in outcomes that EVERYONE can agree are negative. I believe that most people who voted for prop 8 voted because they don’t believe that same sex unions and marriage have equal value and that teaching that they do would be dishonest to our children. Here are some links to data that support the idea that they are not of equal value:

Research shows that contributions from both a mother and a father are significant in the development of children:
http://www.alabamapolicy.org/pdf/currentfamilystructure.pdf
http://marriage.rutgers.edu/Publications/SOOU/SOOU2007.pdf
http://www.marriagedebate.com/pdf/Do_Moms_Dads_Matter.pdf

Same sex relationships are shorter term than traditional marriages between a man and a wife.
The average duration of committed relationships among gay steady partners was 1.5 years:
http://www.aidsonline.com/pt/re/aids/pdfhandler.00002030-200305020-00012.pdf
29% of relationships last more than 7 years:
http://glcensus.org/press/02052004.html
The average homosexual relationship in the US lasts only two to three years:
http://www.acpeds.org/?CONTEXT=art&cat=22&art=50

Same sex relationships are much more prone to domestic violence
Violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples
http://www.statcan.ca/english/research/85-570-XIE/85-570-XIE2006001.pdf
http://www.acpeds.org/?CONTEXT=art&cat=22&art=50

Same sex relationships are more likely to prematurely end in death of one or both partners due to the very high rate of diseases such as AIDS (200 times more likely):
http://www.unaids.org/en/KnowledgeCentre/HIVData/EpiUpdate/EpiUpdArchive/2007/default.asp

Homosexuals are 10-25 times more likely to be child molesters:
http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet2.html

Although same sex unions are equal under the law, they do not have equal value. They are plagued with these problems and it would be dishonest to our children to teach them that they are of equal value because unfortunately they are not.”

4 Responses

  1. I got this quote from Opine Editorials over on Kingfisher Column:

    “Marriage is neither a conservative nor a liberal issue; it is a universal human institution, guaranteeing children fathers, and pointing men and women toward a special kind of socially as well as personally fruitful sexual relationship. Gay marriage is the final step down a long road America has already traveled toward deinstitutionalizing, denuding and privatizing marriage. It would set in legal stone some of the most destructive ideas of the sexual revolution: There are no differences between men and women that matter, marriage has nothing to do with procreation, children do not really need mothers and fathers, the diverse family forms adults choose are all equally good for children. What happens in my heart is that I know the difference. Don’t confuse my people, who have been the victims of deliberate family destruction, by giving them another definition of marriage.”

    Walter Fauntroy-Former DC Delegate to CongressFounding member of the Congressional Black CaucusCoordinator for Martin Luther King, Jr.’s march on DC

    I thought it was very applicable.

  2. Thank you beetlebabee–perfectly applicable and entirely true.

  3. My view is that marriage is not a civil right, it is a definition.

    You are free to hold that view, but in the US, marriage has been a civil right since June 1967.

    and the current, most accepted definition is the union between a man and a woman.

    Irrelevant. As James Madison observed, it is necessary for a working democracy to have safeguards preventing a majority (who think only a man and a woman should be allowed to marry each other) voting rights away from a minority (same-sex couples who want to marry).

    What is wrong with calling a same-sex union something other than marriage?

    What is wrong with calling a married couple …a married couple? How does acknowledging two husbands or two wives break your leg or pick your pocket?

    In California civil unions and marriage are equal under the law.

    Actually, no: domestic partnerships and marriage are not legally equal within California (you can’t register a domestic partnership unless you’re cohabiting, for example): and the world does not begin and end at the borders of California. Finally, as marriage in the US is a civil right, redefining it as a privilege available only to a select class is just the wrong thing to do, even if domestic partnership and civil marriage were “separate but equal”.

    Research shows that contributions from both a mother and a father are significant in the development of children:

    Research shows that this is not so, that there is no difference between children brought up by single parents, same-sex couples, or mixed-sex couples, as far as the gender of their parents is concerned. Even if this were true, the argument that because same-sex couples provide an inferior environment for children, the children of same-sex couples ought to be denied the benefits of married parents, is seriously flawed in its logic…

    The average duration of committed relationships among gay steady partners was 1.5 years:

    That would be from a study done in Amsterdam in the 1990s of urban gay men under 30? Yeah: “The cohort is comprised of young (< 30 years) homosexual men living in the Amsterdam metropolitan area.” Fairly obviously, if you’re only looking at people under 30, the maximum length of a relationship cannot be much greater than 12 years, and the average length is going to be much lower, isn’t it?

    Do you regard short-term relationships as a good thing or a bad thing? Do you feel that the availablity of legal marriage tends to make relationships more or less stable? The “evidence” you’ve cited has been entirely or mostly from states where legal marriage or civil partnership for same-sex couples is not available… so your argument that “same sex couples are not better because they result in outcomes that EVERYONE can agree are negative” is just nonsense, isn’t it?

    Same sex relationships are much more prone to domestic violence
    Violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples

    From the Canadian report you cited:

    “The data from the 2004 General Social Survey
    (GSS) on Victimization related to spousal violence include a
    small number of same-sex spousal relationships; however,
    the numbers were too small to make statistically reliable
    estimates separately for women and men.”

    So, nonsense, again.

    Same sex relationships are more likely to prematurely end in death of one or both partners due to the very high rate of diseases such as AIDS (200 times more likely):

    Is this seriously being advanced as a reason to deny partners marriage?

    Homosexuals are 10-25 times more likely to be child molesters:

    That’s from the “Family Research Institute”, a well-known anti-gay think tank. There’s no reliable evidence for this claim, merely the conviction by homophobes that it ought to be so.

  4. Great post! I really enjoy reading your blog. Keep up the good work.

    I’ve just started a new blog that will be highlighting the dangerous advances of the secular progressive movement (pro-gay “rights”, pro-abortion, anti-religious freedoms, etc). Unfortunately, most Christians still don’t know what’s going on out there and the mainstream media certainly isn’t covering it.

    We’re looking to build a solid group of social conservatives who’ll frequent our site regularly and contribute to some good discussions. I hope you’ll check us out!

    If you’ll add us to your blogroll we’ll gladly add you to ours. Just drop us a comment over at our blog so that we’ll know to add you. Our blog is called Religion and Morality.

    Thanks!

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